how to solve the ZERO OR NEGATIVE VOLUME problem when using very soft material?
Hi,
I am trying a simple impact analysis like radioss example 26 ruptured plate ( I am not interested in the rupture, just want to try an impact problem). I am using a soft non linear material M36_PLAS_TAB with a stress strain curve (E=8Mpa,nu=0.42,rho=1.412e-6Mg) and fixing the whole bottom surface. I used the volume tetra mesh to mesh my disk. ( I am using solid elements instead of shells as a basis for a more complex problem I am working on)
The model was working fine with linear elastic materials...
I read a few posts about this problem. There it was suggested to use a really thin linear elastic surface on top.
And to change the element formulation.
Could you please elaborate more in detail the steps to overcome this problem?
Thanks!
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Arbhaval,
If you are using tetrahedron elements you should perhaps not change the Isolid value,
The Isolid flag is not used with 4- and 10-node tetrahedron elements. For these elements the number of integration points is fixed (1 and 4, respectively).
Read the last FAQ topic -
In the RADIOSS Starter input file (Runname_0000.rad), use Ismstr =2 in the solid property or in the option /DEF_SOLID; in RADIOSS Engine file (Runname_0001.rad) use the option /DT/BRICK/CST
I tried using Icpre=2 with a combination of Ismstr=2, No Isolid; No Ismstr , No Isolid . I also tried Isolid=0,1, But no luck yet.. I am using DT/Brick/CST with 0.6Tscale and 5e-7Tmin
NC= 0 T= 0.0000E+00 DT= 1.2600E-04 ERR= 0.0% DM/M= 0.0000E+00
ANIMATION FILE: similartoes26zsorbothane100kgpvelA001 WRITTEN
-- CONSTANT TIME STEP FOR SOLID ELEMENT NUMBER 16954
-- CONSTANT TIME STEP FOR SOLID ELEMENT NUMBER 17763
-- CONSTANT TIME STEP FOR SOLID ELEMENT NUMBER 11585
-- CONSTANT TIME STEP FOR SOLID ELEMENT NUMBER 13442
-- CONSTANT TIME STEP FOR SOLID ELEMENT NUMBER 16598
-- CONSTANT TIME STEP FOR SOLID ELEMENT NUMBER 16945
-- CONSTANT TIME STEP FOR SOLID ELEMENT NUMBER 17318
MESSAGE ID : 166
** STOP : ZERO OR NEGATIVE VOLUME FOR 3D-ELEMENT ID=18218
MESSAGE ID : 166
** STOP : ZERO OR NEGATIVE VOLUME FOR 3D-ELEMENT ID=18702
ERROR TERMINATION
ERROR TERMINATION
==== End of solver screen output ====
I also tried using Ismstr=1,Icpre=2,No Isolid and it gave me no errors. But the sphere passed through the disk. I got normal termination with this combination. But I don't know if the results are valid/practical?This was the solver output:
NC= 0 T= 0.0000E+00 DT= 1.2600E-04 ERR= 0.0% DM/M= 0.0000E+00
ANIMATION FILE: similartoes26zsorbothane100kgpvelA001 WRITTEN
ANIMATION FILE: similartoes26zsorbothane100kgpvelA002 WRITTEN
ANIMATION FILE: similartoes26zsorbothane100kgpvelA003 WRITTEN
ANIMATION FILE: similartoes26zsorbothane100kgpvelA004 WRITTEN
ANIMATION FILE: similartoes26zsorbothane100kgpvelA005 WRITTEN
ANIMATION FILE: similartoes26zsorbothane100kgpvelA006 WRITTEN
ANIMATION FILE: similartoes26zsorbothane100kgpvelA007 WRITTEN
RESTART FILES: similartoes26zsorbothane100kgpvel_0001_[0001-0001].rst WRITTEN
NORMAL TERMINATION
TOTAL NUMBER OF CYCLES : 170
es, I am trying to analyze the impact of the ball on the foam material.
I tried this impact in 4 models each with different materials. Now I have combined all of these materials (using type 7 interfaces with csurfs and node sets) and want to run the analysis.
I didn't get any errors. But the solver is taking long time to run. I assume this is comparatively a simple analysis. So I might be doing something wrong. Maybe in the engine file definition. Can you please take a look and give any tips? I am sending the model file by dropbox.
Thanks!
Hi,
Thanks. I am able to get results and animations with a normal termination. But from the animation, it is clear that I am making some mistakes probably in my use of contacts. I read the General Purpose Interface (/INTER/TYPE7) help and think I should follow the Soft Part Against Hard Part technique. I don't know how I should calculate the stiffness values and what flags to use in the contact definition. Can you please advise me?
Hi,
I am doing drop test analysis, but following error is coming.
Hi narasimhamurthy,
INDIA support is taking care of your query.
Please note: if you are a commercial customer, you can contact your local support @ http://www.altairhyp...ortProduct.aspx
Hi Prakash - I am getting similar problem -
One which listed in this post -
tried using Icpre=2 with a combination of Ismstr=2, No Isolid; No Ismstr , No Isolid . I also tried Isolid=0,1, But no luck yet.. I am using DT/Brick/CST with 0.6Tscale and 5e-7Tmin
NC= 0 T= 0.0000E+00 DT= 1.2600E-04 ERR= 0.0% DM/M= 0.0000E+00
ANIMATION FILE: similartoes26zsorbothane100kgpvelA001 WRITTEN
-- CONSTANT TIME STEP FOR SOLID ELEMENT NUMBER 16954
-- CONSTANT TIME STEP FOR SOLID ELEMENT NUMBER 17763
-- CONSTANT TIME STEP FOR SOLID ELEMENT NUMBER 11585
-- CONSTANT TIME STEP FOR SOLID ELEMENT NUMBER 13442
-- CONSTANT TIME STEP FOR SOLID ELEMENT NUMBER 16598
-- CONSTANT TIME STEP FOR SOLID ELEMENT NUMBER 16945
-- CONSTANT TIME STEP FOR SOLID ELEMENT NUMBER 17318
MESSAGE ID : 166
** STOP : ZERO OR NEGATIVE VOLUME FOR 3D-ELEMENT ID=18218
MESSAGE ID : 166
** STOP : ZERO OR NEGATIVE VOLUME FOR 3D-ELEMENT ID=18702
ERROR TERMINATION
ERROR TERMINATION
==== End of solver screen output ====
I also tried using Ismstr=1,Icpre=2,No Isolid and it gave me no errors. But the sphere passed through the disk. I got normal termination with this combination. But I don't know if the results are valid/practical?This was the solver output:
NC= 0 T= 0.0000E+00 DT= 1.2600E-04 ERR= 0.0% DM/M= 0.0000E+00
ANIMATION FILE: similartoes26zsorbothane100kgpvelA001 WRITTEN
ANIMATION FILE: similartoes26zsorbothane100kgpvelA002 WRITTEN
ANIMATION FILE: similartoes26zsorbothane100kgpvelA003 WRITTEN
ANIMATION FILE: similartoes26zsorbothane100kgpvelA004 WRITTEN
ANIMATION FILE: similartoes26zsorbothane100kgpvelA005 WRITTEN
ANIMATION FILE: similartoes26zsorbothane100kgpvelA006 WRITTEN
ANIMATION FILE: similartoes26zsorbothane100kgpvelA007 WRITTEN
RESTART FILES: similartoes26zsorbothane100kgpvel_0001_[0001-0001].rst WRITTEN
NORMAL TERMINATION
TOTAL NUMBER OF CYCLES : 170
I have tried to use Icpre=2 but problem still persists. Can you please let me know how did you solve this problem ?
Hi,
This NEGATIVE VOLUME error happens when solid elements are very deformed and their characteristic length goes to 0. For large strain formulation the time step of an element goes to 0 when the element is compressed.
In RADIOSS Starter input file (Runname_0000.rad), use Ismstr =2 in the solid property and in RADIOSS Engine file (Runname_0001.rad) use the option/DT/BRICK/CST which will set the time step value tmin at which the solid elements will switch to small strain.This means that the solid elements using Ismstr =2 will use large strain formulation while their time step remains greater than tmin, and will then switch to small strain formulation.
(/DT/BRICK/CST option is used to control the time step of the analysis. The time step becomes constant after reaching Tmin specified by the user )
Please try the run with the a higher value of Tmin.
We have some FAQ about this error message depending when you get the error message, Is it for the starter? does the error also include an element ID or element description?
When you change the element formulation, card edit the property and then choose ismstr to 2 along with timestep variation as explained in detail in the FAQ below.
Navigation: Altair RADIOSS > RADIOSS Frequently Asked Questions > Elements
I used solid elements and the run stopped before the end time, with the message: 'Zero or Negative Volume'. How do I solve this problem?
Navigation: Altair RADIOSS > RADIOSS Frequently Asked Questions > Elements
I used solid elements with Ismstr=2 and /DT/BRICK/CST; but the run stopped with the message: 'Zero or Negative Volume'; is this normal?
Navigation: Altair RADIOSS > RADIOSS Frequently Asked Questions > Elements
I used solid elements and several integration points, and the Starter gives the following error message while the element seems to be well-defined: ** ERROR: ZERO OR NEGATIVE 3D SOLID VOLUME, is this normal?