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element deformation contour plot visulazation

User: "Altair Forum User"
Altair Employee
Updated by Altair Forum User

Dear All,

 

Please revert on following queries

I'm pressing circular ring into hub by using rigid plate.

1. Is the element deformation shows right color pattern?

2. Should i need to go for higher order element?

3. Should i need to fine the mesh?

 

image.png.b813204b9092bd1f28508f0e7a47bab5.pngimage.png.54a90112d7272204a15d9edfe85e4ac8.png

 

 

 

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    User: "Altair Forum User"
    Altair Employee
    OP
    Updated by Altair Forum User

    @Ganesh Munge

     

    Since the information available is very less to judge, 

    Can you refine the mesh at contact surface and check if that helps?

    User: "Altair Forum User"
    Altair Employee
    OP
    Updated by Altair Forum User

    Dear Prakash, this is the previous analysis results of same type of analysis.

     

    here, I havent used R body element for pressing plate.

     

    but in above case, i used. all other things are same.

     

     

    image.png.2fab1a0903238d69d591ed71a471cb09.png

    User: "Nachiket Kadu_22143"
    Altair Community Member
    Updated by Nachiket Kadu_22143

    Hi 

    How did you model you rigid element? I mean which nodes you selected for rigids?

    User: "Altair Forum User"
    Altair Employee
    OP
    Updated by Altair Forum User

    Grey part, pressing plate

    mater node= pressing plate arc center

    slave nodes= all pressing plate nodes

    User: "Altair Forum User"
    Altair Employee
    OP
    Updated by Altair Forum User

    @Ganesh Munge

     

    I think having a rigid will change the stiffness on contact and this is what makes the difference. 

     

    What is the Istiff on contact card with and without Rigid?

    User: "Altair Forum User"
    Altair Employee
    OP
    Updated by Altair Forum User

    ring and housing are elastic

    type 24

    p14_solid

     

    but time step is different

    0.1 sec= 20mm disp

    image.png.2fab1a0903238d69d591ed71a471cb09.png

     

    0.01sec= 10mm

    User: "Nachiket Kadu_22143"
    Altair Community Member
    Updated by Nachiket Kadu_22143

    What energy plot says?

    User: "Altair Forum User"
    Altair Employee
    OP
    Updated by Altair Forum User

    I kept it default

    User: "Nachiket Kadu_22143"
    Altair Community Member
    Updated by Nachiket Kadu_22143

    What energy plot says?

    I mean what is behaviour of energies? Kinetic internal and hourglass?

    User: "Nachiket Kadu_22143"
    Altair Community Member
    Updated by Nachiket Kadu_22143

    ring and housing are elastic

    type 24

    p14_solid

     

    but time step is different

    0.1 sec= 20mm disp

    image.png.2fab1a0903238d69d591ed71a471cb09.png

     

    0.01sec= 10mm

    Didnt get it? Time step?? or the end time you want to say??

    User: "Altair Forum User"
    Altair Employee
    OP
    Updated by Altair Forum User

    @Ganesh Munge

     

    Can you try with Istif 5 or 6 with Rigids?

    User: "Nachiket Kadu_22143"
    Altair Community Member
    Updated by Nachiket Kadu_22143

    ring and housing are elastic

    type 24

    p14_solid

     

    but time step is different

    0.1 sec= 20mm disp

    image.png.2fab1a0903238d69d591ed71a471cb09.png

     

    0.01sec= 10mm

    Clearly you are loading with rapid velocity in second case, In second case you are getting this element distortion?

    User: "Altair Forum User"
    Altair Employee
    OP
    Updated by Altair Forum User

    @Prakash Pagadala

     

    sure i'll try it out.

     

    @Nachiket Kadu

     

    there are two cases

    1. with rigid

    2. with out rigid.

    geometry is different in both cases but phenomenon is same.

    for first case 

    disp curve is 

    X                  Y

    0sec           0mm

    0.1 sec       20 mm

     

    for second case

    X                  Y

    0sec           0mm

    0.01 sec       10 mm

     

    my question is will time step result into such elemental behaviour?

     

     

     

    User: "Nachiket Kadu_22143"
    Altair Community Member
    Updated by Nachiket Kadu_22143

    @Prakash Pagadala

     

    sure i'll try it out.

     

    @Nachiket Kadu

     

    there are two cases

    1. with rigid

    2. with out rigid.

    geometry is different in both cases but phenomenon is same.

    for first case 

    disp curve is 

    X                  Y

    0sec           0mm

    0.1 sec       20 mm

     

    for second case

    X                  Y

    0sec           0mm

    0.01 sec       10 mm

     

    my question is will time step result into such elemental behaviour?

     

     

     

    are you doing an impact analysis or an quasi-static analysis? I think it sholud be a case of quasi static analysis. Surely what you are giving as loading time is too rapid. I suggest you take default value of 0.3 for your loading and check the results.

    User: "Nachiket Kadu_22143"
    Altair Community Member
    Updated by Nachiket Kadu_22143

    are you doing an impact analysis or an quasi-static analysis? I think it sholud be a case of quasi static analysis. Surely what you are giving as loading time is too rapid. I suggest you take default value of 0.3 for your loading and check the results.

    what is the energy error you are getting for the simulation? 

    User: "Altair Forum User"
    Altair Employee
    OP
    Updated by Altair Forum User

    @Nachiket Kadu

     

    I'll revert on energy plot,

    having licencing error, server is down.

     

    Thanks guys for the support.

    User: "Altair Forum User"
    Altair Employee
    OP
    Updated by Altair Forum User

    Dear @Nachiket Kadu

     

    Please have a look on energy plot

     

    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>image.thumb.png.62ff64e81668a4102d0f6b7fc7d42a67.png

    User: "Nachiket Kadu_22143"
    Altair Community Member
    Updated by Nachiket Kadu_22143

    Dear @Nachiket Kadu

     

    Please have a look on energy plot

     

    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>image.thumb.png.62ff64e81668a4102d0f6b7fc7d42a67.png

    1.Make changes in property and try using QEPH formulation to aviod hourglass energy.

    2. Give your loading gradual to avoid sudden impacts you may consider to give the end time as 0.3.

    Apply these changes and check the results. You please go through the previous content for Radioss regarding energy error and troubleshooting techniques.

     

    User: "Altair Forum User"
    Altair Employee
    OP
    Updated by Altair Forum User

    @Nachiket Kadu @Prakash Pagadala @George P Johnson

     

    I want to check pressing force required to insert ring into hub, 

    I have simulated 1/4th geometry.

    and got x N of force.

     

    and suppose, i have full geometry, what will be the pressing force?

    will it be 4 times of first case or same?

    User: "Nachiket Kadu_22143"
    Altair Community Member
    Updated by Nachiket Kadu_22143

    @Nachiket Kadu @Prakash Pagadala @George P Johnson

     

    I want to check pressing force required to insert ring into hub, 

    I have simulated 1/4th geometry.

    and got x N of force.

     

    and suppose, i have full geometry, what will be the pressing force?

    will it be 4 times of first case or same?

    Yes, we can sat that reaction forces are proportional to size of the component.

    User: "Altair Forum User"
    Altair Employee
    OP
    Updated by Altair Forum User

    you mean it will be 4 times, Right.

    User: "Altair Forum User"
    Altair Employee
    OP
    Updated by Altair Forum User

    Hi, 

    Try these workarounds:

    Hourglass seems to very high in the model.

    For solid elements use Isolid-24 and if any shell elements are there use ishell-24 and N-5. 

    For the contact keep Istf to 4, so that minimum of master and slave will be calculated. Also give a minimum stiffness (Stmin-1000N/m). Plot the global contact energy also.

    Ramp the load in 300 milliseconds so that the solution will be stable.

    Once these changes are done, run the simulation and plot the hourglass energy for each part so that we can see which part is contributing more.

    And finally make sure correct material type and parameters are used. 

    Which material is used for this?.

     

    User: "Altair Forum User"
    Altair Employee
    OP
    Updated by Altair Forum User

    @simulation explicite

     

    Thanks for the suggestions,

    Bearing steel is used for ring, and aluminium is for housing.

    User: "Altair Forum User"
    Altair Employee
    OP
    Updated by Altair Forum User

    image.png.31b0456b5b4431eeba966c15cf6f30dc.png

     

    what if I have tetra elements?, will Isolid  -24 work?

    User: "Altair Forum User"
    Altair Employee
    OP
    Updated by Altair Forum User

    Hello,

    Isolid is to choose hex element formulation, whereas I_tetra option is used to select the tetra element formulation. Isolid will not be considered if you choose for Tet elements

    User: "Altair Forum User"
    Altair Employee
    OP
    Updated by Altair Forum User

    image.png.e877c29f805d24defb263ee1a454c0b3.png

     

    will it be fine for hex?

    User: "Altair Forum User"
    Altair Employee
    OP
    Updated by Altair Forum User

    Yes, seems fine, but disable Icpre option.

    User: "Karthic_22061"
    Altair Community Member
    Updated by Karthic_22061

    Hi Ganesh,

     Yes, Isolid 24 with physical stabilization will take care of hourglass issue.

    Initially try the problem with out FRICTION and look for energy plots. check for the internal, K.E, hour glass& contact energy

    Check with the material properties

     

    User: "Altair Forum User"
    Altair Employee
    OP
    Updated by Altair Forum User

    Dear All,

     

    i'm doing pressing analysis, as said above, i ramp up the load at 0.3 sec.

    used Isolid24.

    but still simulation showing weired behaviour

     

    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>image.thumb.png.4d20c50b94ad0649c1b62b786901b8b6.png

    User: "Nachiket Kadu_22143"
    Altair Community Member
    Updated by Nachiket Kadu_22143

    Dear All,

     

    i'm doing pressing analysis, as said above, i ramp up the load at 0.3 sec.

    used Isolid24.

    but still simulation showing weired behaviour

     

    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>image.thumb.png.4d20c50b94ad0649c1b62b786901b8b6.png

    @Ganesh Munge

    You can see that houglass energy is still high. This model is going into hourglassing mode. What element formulation you are using? If you are using underintergrated elements, your hourglass energy should be as minimum as less than 5-10% of total energy.

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