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Using the Torque Controller in EDEM to account for geometry Movement.

L_Wessels · 2025-03-04T18:38:35+00:00

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L_Wessels

Hello,
I am fairly new to the ALTAIR software and I am currently using it for my master's thesis.
I want to couple a MotionSolve simulation with an EDEM simulation.

The EDEM simulation I want to couple with MotionSolve revolves around a geometry that travels through a field of particles with a constant velocity. i created scatches for better understanding down below.

In reality, the geometry is fixed at one point and can rotate around it if a certain torque (or force) is reached.
The force created by the particles would normally cause movement in the geometry, and in the next step, the changed position of the geometry would alter the force applied by the particles again, which in turn would create a different movement in the geometry, and so on.

I have the following idea: even if the time needed for the simulation's computation increases drastically, I first just want to know if this is theoretically possible.

Would it be possible to move the particles toward the geometry instead and apply a torque controller at the geometry's rotation point?
For example, if I set the torque controller to 1000 Nm and the torque created by the particles reaches 1200 Nm, would EDEM allow movement of the geometry around the rotation point and account for the resulting changes in forces?

And if yes, would it be possible to link the torque controller with MotionView to allow for a more complex torque function depending on the movement of the geometry?
To better understand both ideas, I have created two scetches.

Thank you very much in Advance
Sincerely
Ludger

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EDEM

MotionView/MotionSolve

v2024.1.0

Accepted answers

GTT Adam

Hi @L_Wessels,

Based on the info in that EDEM Help Documentation page for Motion Controllers, I would interpret that as you can't have an EDEM Force AND Torque controller on certain geometry. But that would be if you wanted to develop everything inside EDEM and not co-simulate with MotionView or Twin Activate.

Everything else you mention here seems to check out. To me, everything would be developed inside the MotionView model (CAD geometry, motion, constraints) and the EDEM coupling would allow you to fill the box with particles. This way, the development and troubleshooting can be done in isolation in MotionView very quickly before needing to co-simulate.

Hope this helps!

Adam Reid

All comments

GTT Adam

Hi @L_Wessels,

Yes, that is entirely possible!

It looks like all of the entities would be built in MotionView and the soil would need to be in a container, like in this excavator bucket demo:

You would then move the container at a set speed and then have the object react to the disturbances. The controller aspect of this model could be modelled in MotionView as a SISO Controller or the controller could be modelled in Twin Activate for more advanced control systems.

If you are just getting started with these programs, I would strongly recommend that you complete relevant eLearning modules for MotionView, EDEM, and Twin Activate. This should get you up and running in no time!

For an intro to MotionSolve and EDEM cosimulation, you can also check out this link:

https://help.altair.com/hwdesktop/hwx/topics/tutorials/mv/tut_mv_7021_ms_edem_cosimulation_mvx_t.htm

Hope this helps!

Adam Reid

L_Wessels

Hello @GTT Adam,

Thank you very much for your fast answer and the linked tutorials. I have already completed a few on the eLearning website; they are quite informative.

The reason I asked this question is because of the information on the EDEM help websites stating: “EDEM does not support Geometries with force and torque motions.” I was confused as to why EDEM would include a torque controller if it does not account for a particle-induced torque and the resulting possible change in the movement of the geometry. If it did not consider the reaction force and the changing total torque that leads to a change in motion, a motion controller would be sufficient.

Also, I didn’t know that I could do both: move the geometry and apply a torque at a fixed point, which is why I thought, “Why not move the particles instead and only apply a torque to the geometry?” The tutorials you linked helped me see that I can move the geometry and apply a torque—just what I wanted (at least, I hope so).

The next step will be to link the torque applied in EDEM with MotionView; I will look more closely at the SISO controller you mentioned for this.

If anything I have stated is wrong and my Idea is not possible, or if I missed a crucial point, please let me know. Otherwise, wish me luck and perseverance.

Ludger

GTT Adam

Hi @L_Wessels,

Hope this helps!

Adam Reid