Compute magnet and rotor losses in a 3D simulation
Hi everyone,
I would to compute the magnet losses on a SPM machine.
The magnets are axially divided into several blocks in order to reduce the eddy currents circulation.
The rotor yoke is also axially laminated with several axial slices.
I found the application note of the IPM motor in order to create the 3D model with several blocks.
I have some questions:
- Can i extrude different face regions with different lengths?
- Do I have to define an airgap face region between two magnet axial slices in order to compute the insulation between the magnets and reduce the eddy currents circulation?
- Do I have to define an airgap face region also for the rotor yoke axial slices and assign them on the faces between two slices?
- If I want to extrude a face region multiple times across one direction, how can I do? Do i have to set a offset value on every extrusion or do I have to assign the face regions to the new faces on the new volumes created and then extrude them?
In addition, I tried to model this motor once, by starting from a 3D CAD, with airgap face regions between the magnets slices and the rotor yoke slices, but i get this message:
"The coupling with neighbouring volume regions of faces:
363 340 317 294 271 248 225 202 179 156 133
of face region ROTOR_AIR is forbidden.
The coupling with neighbouring volume regions of faces:
107 102 97 92 87 82 77 72 67 62 57 53 49 45 41 37 33 29 25 21
of face region MAG_AIR is forbidden."
I removed the airgap face regions but I get this message:
"The group of volume regions:
- STATOR
is multiply connected (have hole(s)).
There can be a problem called connexity problem if a coil forms
an interlacing with the group of volume regions.
If you have a connexity problem, you must create a cut of
magnetic circuit which cuts the group
of volume regions.
It has not been possible to automatically set formulations
to regions.
You must assign yourself the formulations, choosing a
formulation model different from "Automatic formulations", as
follows:
- menu: [Application] [Edit current application]
- in the dialog box, click on the "Formulation model" tab,
- choose a formulation model different from "Automatic,
formulation"
Thank you for your kindness.
Best Answer
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If you want to keep it private, please use the regular support instead of using the forum.
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Altair EmployeeAnswers
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Hello Ciro;
To build your Flux project please have a look on the 3D tutorial available from the supervisor, there is a step by step pdf.
The rotor laminations are not needed to be displayed, you can use a dedicated magnetic laminated non conducting region, we use it to take into account the lamination and its impact on the material characteristics.
It is forbiden in 3D to put airgap face region between two solid conductors, it is allowd only to use insulating face region.
When you have connexity problem, you have to create the magnetic cut loop. It can be done automatically if you go on [physics] -- [magnetic cut loop].
Once you created your project, i can have a look on it to check if it well defined or you still miss some settings.
Best regards
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Hi Farid,
thanks for the reply.
Do I need to define an insulating region between two solid conductors in order to simulate the effect of reduced eddy current circulation?
The rotor yoke is laminated with a mild steel therefore I can't define the region as a laminated region but I have to define a 3D model with axial lamination also for the rotor yoke.
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You are welcome!
Yes, in order to model the segmentation, you have to use insulating face region.
If the rotor is made by two blocks of lamination, you can display the airgap geometrically between this two blocks and still using laminated volume regions. If this airgap is too small, then you are allowed to use airgap face magnetic region. When this face is located between two magnetic non conducting region, it is allowed.
Regards
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Farid zidat_20516 said:
You are welcome!
Yes, in order to model the segmentation, you have to use insulating face region.
If the rotor is made by two blocks of lamination, you can display the airgap geometrically between this two blocks and still using laminated volume regions. If this airgap is too small, then you are allowed to use airgap face magnetic region. When this face is located between two magnetic non conducting region, it is allowed.
Regards
Thank you very much for your patience.
What about this error: "It has not been possible to automatically set formulations
to regions.
You must assign yourself the formulations, choosing a
formulation model different from "Automatic formulations", as
follows:
- menu: [Application] [Edit current application]
- in the dialog box, click on the "Formulation model" tab,
- choose a formulation model different from "Automatic,
formulation""?Regards
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Thank you, and what about the message:
"It has not been possible to automatically set formulations
to regions.
You must assign yourself the formulations, choosing a
formulation model different from "Automatic formulations", as
follows:
- menu: [Application] [Edit current application]
- in the dialog box, click on the "Formulation model" tab,
- choose a formulation model different from "Automatic,
formulation"What does it mean?
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Can you check if all the face regions are used ? otherwise you should simply delete them.
If you still have this error message after rebuilding the Flux project with all the previous discussed changes, you can upload your Flux project here, so we can check.
Regards
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Farid zidat_20516 said:
Can you check if all the face regions are used ? otherwise you should simply delete them.
If you still have this error message after rebuilding the Flux project with all the previous discussed changes, you can upload your Flux project here, so we can check.
Regards
Thank you, after doing your modifications the problem was gone.
The last question I have is: can I build a periodic 3D starting from a complete model, using the Flux 3D modeler?
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Sorry to bother you, but when I mesh the domain I get the following message:
"Advancing front mesh on volume 49 failed. Check the face mesh."
What is the problem?
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Which version of Flux are you using ?
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Farid zidat_20516 said:
Which version of Flux are you using ?
Flux 2021
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I ran a check mesh and I didn't get any errors. But when I finished to mesh the domain I got the error I wrote before.
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Are you using extrusive mesh ?
If it is the case, you have to refine the mesh along the extrusion.
Regards
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Farid zidat_20516 said:
Are you using extrusive mesh ?
If it is the case, you have to refine the mesh along the extrusion.
Regards
I followed the application note fron your advice.
How can I know if I am using extrusive mesh?
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Well, in the application note we are not using extrusive mesh.
Can you please upload your project so i can check what is going wrong on it ?
Regards
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Yes. Can I upload privately?
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If you want to keep it private, please use the regular support instead of using the forum.
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Farid zidat_20516 said:
If you want to keep it private, please use the regular support instead of using the forum.
Thank you for your support.
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