I am trying to optimise a fuselage model i created on Solidworks and an running into a problem on hypermesh

Vijaya Panday
Vijaya Panday Altair Community Member
edited April 2023 in Community Q&A

this is the error i get

 
 *** ERROR # 2372 ***
 No PSHELL properties exist in the bulk data.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188804.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188805.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188806.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188807.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188808.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188809.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188810.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188811.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188812.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188813.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188814.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188815.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188816.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188817.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188818.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188819.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188820.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188821.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188822.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188823.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188824.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188825.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188826.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188827.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188828.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188829.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188838.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188839.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188840.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188841.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188842.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188843.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188844.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188845.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188846.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188847.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188848.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188849.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188850.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188851.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188852.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188853.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188854.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188855.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188856.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188857.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188858.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188859.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188860.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188861.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188862.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    2 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188863.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188864.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188865.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188866.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188867.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188868.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188869.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188870.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188871.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188872.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188873.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188874.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188875.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188876.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188877.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188878.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188879.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188880.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188881.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188882.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188883.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188884.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188885.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188886.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188887.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188888.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188889.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188890.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188891.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188892.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188893.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188894.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188895.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188896.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188897.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188898.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188899.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188900.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188901.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188902.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188903.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188904.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188905.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188906.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188907.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188908.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188909.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188910.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188911.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188912.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188913.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188914.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188915.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188916.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188917.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188918.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188919.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188920.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188921.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188922.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188923.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188924.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188925.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188926.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188927.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188928.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188929.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188930.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188931.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188932.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188933.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188934.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188935.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188936.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188937.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188938.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188939.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188940.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188941.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188942.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188943.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188944.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188945.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188946.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188947.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188948.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188949.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188950.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188951.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188952.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188953.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188954.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188955.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188956.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188957.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188958.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188959.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188960.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188961.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188962.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188963.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188964.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188965.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188966.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188967.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188968.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188969.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188970.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188971.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188972.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188973.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188974.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188975.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188976.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188977.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188978.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188979.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188980.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188981.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188982.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188983.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188984.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188985.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188986.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188987.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188988.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188989.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188990.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188991.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188992.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188993.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188994.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188995.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188996.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188997.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188998.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 188999.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 189000.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 189001.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 189002.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 189003.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 189004.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 189005.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 189006.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 189007.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 189008.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 189009.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 189010.
 *** ERROR 14: Missing property #    1 referenced by  CTRIA3 # 189011.
 
 ****************
 Too many error messages. Aborting run.
 Current limit is 10000. Use "MSGLMT" control card to change this value.

Tagged:

Answers

  • Ben Buchanan
    Ben Buchanan
    Altair Employee
    edited April 2023

    You only have solid properties and you have some shell elements. You either need to create a PSHELL property or delete/do not export the shell elements.  Also, your mesh is very course and has bad element quality so you may want to review that too.

  • Vijaya Panday
    Vijaya Panday Altair Community Member
    edited April 2023
    Ben Buchanan said:

    You only have solid properties and you have some shell elements. You either need to create a PSHELL property or delete/do not export the shell elements.  Also, your mesh is very course and has bad element quality so you may want to review that too.

    The shell elements you mentioned how would I change them into solid elements. Would that mean i have to alter the CAD model?

  • Ben Buchanan
    Ben Buchanan
    Altair Employee
    edited April 2023
    Vijaya Panday said:

    The shell elements you mentioned how would I change them into solid elements. Would that mean i have to alter the CAD model?

    It looks like the shell elements were just used to create the solid elements so you probably don't need them.  However, you probably need to review your approach as I don't think your current setup will get meaningful results.

  • Vijaya Panday
    Vijaya Panday Altair Community Member
    edited April 2023
    Ben Buchanan said:

    It looks like the shell elements were just used to create the solid elements so you probably don't need them.  However, you probably need to review your approach as I don't think your current setup will get meaningful results.

    is that the setup of the cad or in altair. I have been trying to follow this report that has been conducted here https://ueaeprints.uea.ac.uk/id/eprint/65143/1/Accepted_manuscript.pdf

  • Ben Buchanan
    Ben Buchanan
    Altair Employee
    edited April 2023
    Vijaya Panday said:

    is that the setup of the cad or in altair. I have been trying to follow this report that has been conducted here https://ueaeprints.uea.ac.uk/id/eprint/65143/1/Accepted_manuscript.pdf

    Looks like they used shell elements. So you would probably have to do a midsurface mesh instead of solid elements. Also, the interior structure isn't connected to anything in your model and in the paper it looks like they used 1D elements for the interior structure.  The CAD also isn't connected so I guess you could say that may be a problem with the CAD but usually it would be connected with bolts so the CAD is probably modeled correctly and you just need to make the connections in the FE model. As I mentioned the mesh needs to be refined a lot. Generally you will want a average element size that is 1/3 of the size of the members you want (see the note below).

    It is recommended that the MINDIM value be three times larger than this average element size unless the element's mesh is aligned; in which case it can be two times larger. (https://help.altair.com/hwsolvers/os/topics/solvers/os/structural_c_clip_with_minimum_member_size_control_design_r.htm)

  • Vijaya Panday
    Vijaya Panday Altair Community Member
    edited April 2023
    Ben Buchanan said:

    Looks like they used shell elements. So you would probably have to do a midsurface mesh instead of solid elements. Also, the interior structure isn't connected to anything in your model and in the paper it looks like they used 1D elements for the interior structure.  The CAD also isn't connected so I guess you could say that may be a problem with the CAD but usually it would be connected with bolts so the CAD is probably modeled correctly and you just need to make the connections in the FE model. As I mentioned the mesh needs to be refined a lot. Generally you will want a average element size that is 1/3 of the size of the members you want (see the note below).

    It is recommended that the MINDIM value be three times larger than this average element size unless the element's mesh is aligned; in which case it can be two times larger. (https://help.altair.com/hwsolvers/os/topics/solvers/os/structural_c_clip_with_minimum_member_size_control_design_r.htm)

    what exactly is a midsurface mesh

  • Ben Buchanan
    Ben Buchanan
    Altair Employee
    edited April 2023
    Vijaya Panday said:

    what exactly is a midsurface mesh

    https://help.altair.com/hwdesktop/hm/topics/pre_processing/meshing/midsurface_mesh_create_t.htm

  • Vijaya Panday
    Vijaya Panday Altair Community Member
    edited April 2023
    Ben Buchanan said:

    https://help.altair.com/hwdesktop/hm/topics/pre_processing/meshing/midsurface_mesh_create_t.htm

    so i do not need to apply the other meshes?

  • Ben Buchanan
    Ben Buchanan
    Altair Employee
    edited April 2023
    Vijaya Panday said:

    so i do not need to apply the other meshes?

    Right. You only need to represent the geometry with mesh once in your model. Just make sure it is connected appropriately.

  • Vijaya Panday
    Vijaya Panday Altair Community Member
    edited April 2023
    Ben Buchanan said:

    Right. You only need to represent the geometry with mesh once in your model. Just make sure it is connected appropriately.

    im going to try and just optimise a cyclinder as the fuselage without the interior see if i make any progress. Ill apply the forces on the left of the fusleage like before and fix the backside. Im very new to hypermesh.

  • Vijaya Panday
    Vijaya Panday Altair Community Member
    edited April 2023
    Ben Buchanan said:

    Right. You only need to represent the geometry with mesh once in your model. Just make sure it is connected appropriately.

    this is where i am at currentlyimage

    and the optimisation said there was an element error 
     Element # 675, element type TETRA.
     
     *** PROGRAM STOPPED: ERRORS DURING ELEMENT QUALITY CHECK.
    im not quite sure what that is

    when i ignored the error by using the param no checkel
    i got this solution
    image

    any solutions
    i have attached the file as well

  • Vijaya Panday
    Vijaya Panday Altair Community Member
    edited April 2023
    Vijaya Panday said:

    this is where i am at currentlyimage

    and the optimisation said there was an element error 
     Element # 675, element type TETRA.
     
     *** PROGRAM STOPPED: ERRORS DURING ELEMENT QUALITY CHECK.
    im not quite sure what that is

    when i ignored the error by using the param no checkel
    i got this solution
    image

    any solutions
    i have attached the file as well

    seems as though i got it working here are the results i got which seem pretty close to the document that i sent. thank you very much for you help.

    image

    image

     

  • Ben Buchanan
    Ben Buchanan
    Altair Employee
    edited April 2023
    Vijaya Panday said:

    seems as though i got it working here are the results i got which seem pretty close to the document that i sent. thank you very much for you help.

    image

    image

     

    Nice work. Glad you were able to get results you are happy with.

    Don't know how you fixed the element quality problem but I do not recommend during off the element check.

Categories